The Crude Life’s resident art curator and professional Substack content producer Stephen Heins joined Jason Spiess to discuss several recent ESG news items, including the return of Michael Mann on MSNBC.
Michael Mann is considered by many a climatologist and geophysicist, who has become well known for his research on climate change, particularly on the “hockey stick chart” which showed a dramatic rise in global temperature in the 20th century.
Mann’s research has been highly influential in the 1990’s and 2000’s, and his work has been cited thousands of times in the scientific literature.
Mann’s research began in 1998, when he and his colleagues published a paper in Nature which presented the first version of the “hockey stick chart”. This chart showed a long-term cooling trend in the global temperature from the year 1000 to 1900, followed by a sharp upward spike in the 20th century.
This chart was quickly embraced by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and became an iconic symbol of the scientific consensus on climate change. Unfortunately, Mann’s science and method was flawed, inexact and outright erroneous.
The hockey stick chart was quickly subjected to intense scrutiny and criticism, particularly from climate skeptics. In 2003, Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick published a paper which attempted to refute Mann’s findings, claiming that his methods were flawed and his conclusions inaccurate. The paper was heavily criticized by Mann and his colleagues and the scientific community at large, but it sparked a contentious debate about the validity of Mann’s research.
In 2005, the National Academy of Sciences released a report which largely vindicated Mann and his colleagues, stating that their research was “likely to be correct”.
The report also criticized McIntyre and McKitrick for their “unfair” and “inaccurate” criticisms of Mann’s work.
However, the controversy over the hockey stick chart and Mann’s methods has continued, with some critics arguing that the hockey stick chart is still inaccurate and that Mann’s methods are still flawed.
In recent years, Mann has continued to be a vocal advocate for climate change action and the need to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. He has been heavily involved in public outreach, giving lectures and interviews, and has even written a book on the subject. He has also continued to publish research on climate change, and he has been awarded numerous prizes and honors for his work.
Mann’s research and advocacy has been under increased scrutiny by scientists ever since the acceptance of this theory by the IPCC.
Specifically, Mann’s hockey stick chart has been the subject of much debate and criticism, with most experts citing the fact his methods are flawed and his conclusions inaccurate. Despite this, Mann’s work remains a large part of the climate change contributions happening to the public’s scientific understanding of climate change, and his advocacy is raising awareness for the need of urgent action.
Both Heins and Spiess disagree with Mann’s theory and discuss a 30-year scientific body of work as their evidence.
Follow, subscribe and read Stephen Heins on Substack by clicking here
Questions or Comments? Do you have an ESG University story idea or Screenshot Submission? Email: info@esgu.org
Supporting ESG University is one way to slow down the ESG Movement. Education and awareness is the best way to tackle a problem, but it takes resources.
Raising awareness, presenting different angles to issues and insightful essays are some of the ways ESG University is helping others understand.
Would you like to support ESG University? If so, we have a few FREE ways to support - subscribe, like, share and/or comment below!
HOWEVER….. We keep the lights on with paid subscriptions. Please consider supporting ESG University and subscribe today!
Or DONATE VIA VENMO (click on image to donate)
Speaker 1
Alright we're gonna go to the phone line here and talk to Mr Stephen Hines, our resident poet laureate at the crude life as well as a content contributor at E. S. G. University I guess you're an adjunct professor at in fact we're bringing back the old professor. That's right. Professor Stephen Hines back when we did the weekly word talking about a lot of these very issues right now. Uh Mr steven Heinz how are you doing today in Wisconsin?
Speaker 2
Well I'm feeling
Speaker 1
oh geez, it must be snow surfing out there. I saw you posted a picture on social media about some lake michigan surfers. What's going on with that?
Speaker 2
That's really funny. It's about a mile. I I live right on lake michigan Jason. I think I told you I have a balcony right overlooking the lake. Which is one reason why I've stayed here for 22 years. I've never seen any place that long. But uh about a mile north of me. There's this cold that has perfect winds and any day of the year you will see when the winds are right, you'll see people surfing there now.
They wear obviously cold water equipment when you're out there. But there's just something about it, you know? So uh it sort of triggers my anything is possible if you can if you can search in Wisconsin. I
Speaker 1
think it's fan, I thought it was fantastic. But the first thing I thought of it was an artificial robot intelligence machine that did that ad for you or did that post for you. Sorry say added that post for you. But then I looked and I went, no that looks pretty real. So of course you can catch that on E. S. G. University on linkedin as well as our website.
And Stephen Hines has been a contributor with some of his observations because he's quite astute when it comes to a lot of the different happenings. His background of course Columbia University, he was a artistic poet back in the day uh got brought into the telecommunications industry, was part of the A. O. L. Time Warner merger as far as the documentation of that and playing a role in that.
And we're very happy to have him here today. And here's why woke up this morning Went to the old social media to do my distribution. You know how I used to deliver the newspaper when I was like 10 years old. Well that's what I do in social
Speaker 2
media. Yeah,
Speaker 1
well that's what we're doing on social media, right? We're just delivering the newspaper to our subscribers. Well I saw that you posted one of the better posts I've seen in a while because it involved Michael Mann not the Academy award winning director. No this is a different kind of director. This is a climate change director and I thought it was so ironic because on the same day E.
S. G. University puts out Jesse Ausubel who's probably on the Mount Rushmore when it comes to research and climate change. In fact the actual gentleman researcher who is responsible and given credit for the name decarbonization debuts on the crude life, january 1st day one and it was at MSNBC or CNBC brings out Michael Mann, the man who's been debunked,
Speaker 2
who
Speaker 1
is it? I'm sorry.
Speaker 2
So
Speaker 1
MSNBC brings out, oh, that's even worse now. Okay, MSNBC brings out Michael Mann who is I I thought actually his science was debunked so much by so many that he wasn't allowed back into any sort of scientific, you know, questions he, you know, he was kind of like band in a casino for cheating type of a thing because his data,
Speaker 2
you know, he moved to Australia I think to get out of out from under all the flak that he, he was enduring. He tried to sue a couple of his contemporaries for uh, for malicious slander because they said the hockey stick and that's the famous part of Michael Mann, famous hockey stick to be not true. Well,
Speaker 1
let's pause real quick here because the hockey stick is where I wanted to go next to say that first of all we're about four minutes in and people are saying who's Michael Mann and all this. Michael Mann came out with a lot of the momentum where we're at today with what was known as the hockey stick graph and it showed like this just sharp hockey stick of a move when it comes to the climate. Well then they found out that he left out all this data and carried the one here when it should have
been a zero and all kinds of different things and they applied the same thing to other areas in the exact same hockey stick occurred. It was kind of like one of those magic tricks where he used math, no matter what number you start with, it's always gonna end up with three. And so that's a Michael Mann in a Nutshell. So Mr, Stephen Hynes. ... So yes, he did in the 90s. And then al-Gore, kind of took the took the reins from there. But go ahead Steve.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's easy to say that Al Gore and Michael Mann had as much and in the beginning of the international report called the I. P. Piece I. P. C. C. Which is supposed to be balanced and what what to expect from climate et cetera. And and even there the I. P. C. C. Which is supposed to be the gold standard.
They got caught in what they call Climate Gate where what they put together their report, they were communicating among each of the people who were contributing and changing what they were saying to come out with the message they wanted,
Speaker 1
which
Speaker 2
Was about in the mid 2000s. So there's been a lot of scandal in and around. But I think that Michael, he's moved back to the United States and I think he's trying to get back in the discussion.
Speaker 1
Well I was gonna ask you actually I didn't even read the story. I just saw that Michael Mann was back in the news and I to me that was a far side comic. That was my my sunday comics. So what what was the actual story about?
Speaker 2
Well it's uh it's this woman who was trying to prove climate change and uh and the proof became Michael man uh and what what he represents that and the the optimism he and this woman who wrote the story have about uh the certainty of climate change and the sense that something is finally being something done something about it.
Speaker 1
So over the past week you've posted quite a few stories through your sub stack account also through your social media accounts as well as E. S. G. University. What stories stood out the most in the last week?
Speaker 2
Boy that's a tough question. So many things going on. What's happening in europe right now. Uh So far this winter they've gotten a break and the weather has been mild other than a few few days. Uh And so they they have relaxed a little bit and it doesn't look like they're gonna get caught without energy and and cold weather which is very deadly to people of course and in europe has proved to be very gently in cold weather. Uh So I mean that's probably as important as anything but the
other thing is right now uh with the changing of the house right now we're going to be going back and reviewing what uh the uh biden administration the regulation has been doing. And I think there's some corrective on you know in the in the immediate future as we make these people like Michael Mann explain more why they feel the way they do. Which is pretty it's on pretty rocky Iraqi basis without much science.
Speaker 1
The way the way I see the csg movement going as I see the narrative going to climate versus capitalism and the bankers and the financial planners are making money the whole way no matter what you do. Because if you want if you move your money out or you move your money in they make a ton of money off these E. S. G. Fees. And the other thing I'm seeing is that when the climate versus capitalism uh debate is starting to brew out of this esg movement I just see china and Russia
gaining more power, more power and more power. And this is remarkable to me because a lot of american politicians and leaders are the ones driving the ship. Your thought.
Speaker 2
Well you know I mean that's that's an argument i in fact i there's a a generalist I guess that's the best way to describe but capital G. Out of the University of texas, University of colorado lean han is his name. I'll try and think of his first name. Anyway. His argument is that china in fact is uh in the process of unraveling right now uh and Covid is it may have been its undoing. So I mean what am I what am I trying to say?
I'm trying to say I don't know as much about what's happening in the future as anybody else I have. I have inclinations and I would bet frankly that both Russia and china will be neutered. But by what's happening right now, especially if europe and the United States start adopting a more practical approach to energy and to climate and to economics.
Speaker 1
That's interesting because I see Russia in a win win situation. I see Russia as uh taking a very tactical move because of this E. S. G. Movement where they saw a country going off of foundational traditional fossil fuels, whichever term you care to use and at the same time putting a lot of dependency on the government.
So what they did is they went in and reminded the Ukraine what E. S. G. Means. So whether they pull in or stay, whether they pull out or stay in. I think honestly Russia is going to come out even stronger no matter what happens no matter what happens
Speaker 2
again. I think what we're really talking about Jason is how they're governed. How china how how european union, how china is governed. The problem with both of the of china and Russia right now is that a small group group of people are making decisions in many cases and also the satellites, other countries that are depending on both Russia and china.
Speaker 1
Well I tell you it brings us back to America now and say how is that any different than what America is happening? I mean take a look at the Biden administration. That's a small group. I mean you know as well as I do that democracy a lot of times 50% of the population doesn't pick The president, it's like 30% because they usually about 60% of the population votes and then it's half of that. And so when you do the numbers it is a small group that is that is polarizing the nation right now.
Speaker 2
So I think that's right yeah. And I think if you're looking to pin the tail on the donkey right now and that's a negative term, oh come on. Hey
Speaker 1
this is a podcast you can say jackass.
Speaker 2
Okay. Uh anyway uh it's you know it's pin the tail on the donkey time. But I would say right now that this large group well funded group of well meaning uh activists right now are having have had an enormous impact in terms of marketing and visibility and that's the environmental N. G. O. Is the not for profits. Why? Because they have I mean sierra club has 12 offices Jason they have a $2 billion a year budget.
I mean you know they have 100 times more money than the private sector spends on marketing as it relates to climate. And so what I I wrote a piece and a poem, in fact, I've started to write include a little bit of energy into uh in my poetry, not trying to be more political, but trying to say, hey, uh there's something going on right now and a good half of the world is being ignored.
They are being asked to use solar panels and wind turbines in a place that it has no, it has no economic viability and it doesn't help them become modern china or africa or good parts of Russian, good parts of china. The weak parts of both china and Russia is that there is a small group of people really and and and and an economic sense and they will be out of power by the people who are the have nots, who are simply not going to take it any more ... questions about it, Jason, I I think that is
exactly the direction we're heading in right now. And because we're in the throes of getting rid of an old, you know, the al gore, what I like to call the Al Jazeera Guard thinking uh and on our way to something more practical, as as I always have trouble pronouncing uh mashable's name, but there's like, you know, there's Alex Epstein, there's Judith curry, there's uh scott tinker, There's robert bryce, there's Bjorn Lomborg, but a whole group of very smart people with a lot of the
uh climate and uh the real information of what the earth and it's and and it's being has been doing so uh Judith curry was on with robert bryce last week, it was really great other than she said. Uh you know, a couple of times too often for my taste, but that's a small problem. And and and robert bryce is a very smart guy and he was asking a lot of questions. So she was worked the I know, you know, was just trying to formulate your thoughts, but she's the one who said there isn't anywhere in
the world right now who's willing to debate her on the facts, climate, illogical facts. That's probably true for Bjorn Lomborg. Uh you know, uh you know, it's true for Alex Epstein, although he's been trying to do too much on his own in a sense, people like us, people in the industry who know better the adults and rumors the same goes, we have to band together and start taking charge of the narrative right now and making sure that both sides of the discussion are hurt
Speaker 1
just a couple
Speaker 2
of minutes. ... So
Speaker 1
just a couple of minutes left here, I did want to ask you one final thought, I was doing a little bit of research on Black rock, which, ironically, I believe means coal and black rock came around, I think 1988 and then they just had some meteoric rise like man, they must have knew the right people and the right rooms and all kinds of stuff. Because,
Speaker 2
because, yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1
whatever it is, it happened okay. And they ended up controlling a nice percentage of the global wealth. And they ended up becoming basically a lobbyist group. They became a political activist group. And when I look around and I'm starting to see Starbucks and Black Rifle coffee, that's becoming political now, companies are becoming like lobbyist groups. They are actually becoming like, like, hey, we're a Republican coffee company.
Well, we're a democrat coffee company. Well, we're, we're, we're a Black Rock were an E. S. G, uh, democratic financial firm. Well, we are vanguard. Take a hike. I mean, what is going on with this steve, I mean, our, it's like a whole new world we're entering into where you got nonprofits that are now special interest lobbyist groups. You've got governments that are starting to get like that. It's, it's a crazy time.
Speaker 2
Uh, no question. Well, I think we're slowly going into a larger international market right now where some of the have nots are starting to emerge whether it's cambodia or Vietnam or, uh, you know, even places are likely to make a comeback and that's Venezuela. Why, after so many bad years of bad governance, they have the largest, uh, no known deposits of natural gas and oil in the world, Venezuela does. So I think it's, we're Black Rock has stood for, um, really, in essence an
enlightened investment community, uh, broker who has been believing in E. S. G. For several years and has been a large proponent of E. S. G. Now, Black Rock has hit, they've hit the wall right now. Why? Because they're on both sides of all these transactions, they're on as they're on the side as an advisor, and then they also make money off what they've advised. That's
Speaker 1
what I'm saying. The I think the bankers and the financial advisors need to be investigated on this because they're creating, well, think about it, they they're creating a whole new marketplace based on fear. Now. They're trying to use facts, but a lot of the facts are hockey sticks and their curves that don't exist.
And there's and they're leaving out the butterfly effect and all kinds of different catch phrases that they can have. But at the end of the day, what you said is right, no matter what you do with your money, no matter where you move it, they're taking a cut. They're taking a percentage
Speaker 2
back in the nineties when, and I was working on Wall Street at the time, I think I even told you that doing marketing and all, but, uh, back in the nineties when private placement that is, you know, private investments. We're now getting big enough. They were competing against, uh, you know, uh, let's say, fund money, a retirement funds, etcetera, etcetera. So for a while many of the banks had what they called a chinese wall between the part of their business that was doing the
financing on it and the part of the business that was doing the investment, the speculation and they pretended there was they didn't talk to each other. Well that's you know, simply human nature. I mean that was just a bogus argument, but the same argument right now they're using a form of the the chinese wall uh so that they can separate the notion of E. S. G. And and enlightened investments and also uh but also being the broker making transactions no matter where it came from
Speaker 1
boy, that's something else because you know you talked about the chinese wall and in the in the media world we called it the separation of editorial and sales and in government the separation of church and state. And so they're and and in science actually it's called a double blind study where you and and that's the one thing that's the one thing that climate change science has never done.
They've never done a double blind study to where they can and what a double blind study is, folks that is. If I go up to the Eiffel Tower and I drop a bowling ball off the Eiffel Tower and I send that that equation out to two labs, one of them in South Dakota and the other one in Australia. And I tell them that the bowling ball weighs this amount. The wind velocity. Was this the the amount of uh meters involved with the height was this.
They'll be able to give me a pretty precise uh answer to my question. Let's say if I ask how quickly will it hit the ground, they'll be able to give me a very precise estimate and they both will be pretty accurate within a very small variable of difference. That's what's called a double blind study that's never been done with climate science.
Speaker 2
They're trying to introduce a whole new notion over here in the US through black rocket but also in europe european union ...
Speaker 1
it's
Speaker 2
effectively double fiduciary responsibility. Which is impossible. You can't be responsible to two different parties uh and create you know anything that resembles a balanced thoughtful uh report on anything you've been asked to do what
Speaker 1
ended up happening is that
Speaker 2
it's quite actually now that I think about it it's called Double Materiality. Materiality. Are the all the material facts that go into a company so that you can determine what their what their value is. Well
Speaker 1
we're gonna wrap up here because I've gotta I've gotta hit hit the road. But in closing I'll say this that um I think step number one for E. S. G. University is to create an awareness that politicians and lawyers are not scientists and they're the ones that are directing science right now.
Speaker 2
And the accountants are all they all have. They all have conflicts and they are no longer to be trusted to give us uh a decision like you'd expect from the Supreme Court. They can't they can't do that anymore. They just represent one side and more and more people are realizing that uh large group second or third largest holder of assets in the world.
Vanguard has walked away from E. S. G. And all of the regulations they've been trying to write. So it's out there and and I and there is a way of coming and it's not gonna be capitalism against tsg it's gonna be a good old fashioned practical economics uh meets good old practical environmentalism.
Speaker 1
And what's the website people can find yet.
Speaker 2
Uh They can find me at the crude life. I'm happy to say they can find me at E. S. G. University. They can find me on facebook I post I think in five or six places these J days. They can find me on substack Stephen hynes at substack dot com. But I am trying to be a source of good information without much prejudice and try to talk about for the finances of the world in a way that are true to accounting.
But they're also true to making sure that this world does not enter a de growth period and in fact the way out of our dilemma is through natural well done, thoughtful growth for all people for the the the entire world
Heins Has A Location Suggestion For Michael Mann's Hockey Stick