Robert Knuth, Training Director, North Dakota Firefighter's Association joined KLXX-AM SuperTalk 1270’s Talk of the Town with Steve Bakken and multimedia journalist Jason Spiess to discuss the realities and state of fire protection. (Transcript below)
“Nationally, the average number of firefighters is approximately 76% are volunteer,” Knuth said. “When you come to a rural state, such as North Dakota, that number increases dramatically. We are at 95-96% volunteer.”
Knuth continued citing more vivid firefighter facts as he paints a picture of fire protection in the state.
“There are only four full-time career fire departments in the state,” Knuth said. “Right now, there are a total of 363 fire departments recognized by the state of North Dakota.”
This is a concern for Knuth, especially given the rise of government mandated EVs and the recent train derailment issue in Ohio.
The interview also discussed the training with electric vehicle (EV) fires, which are considered much more dangerous than a traditional combustion engine vehicle and are very difficult to put out.
"The National Fire Protection Association has come out with a standard and it takes on average anywhere from 7 to 10,000 gallons of water on an electric vehicle to get it cooled," Knuth said.
While the number of EVs on the road continues to rise, fire departments are stuck with the crash course on figuring out how to fight an EV fire.
“The last thing fire service needs to, needs to do is be reactive,” Knuth said. “Vehicles are the number one item (911 call) that we deal with in (fire protection).”
In addition to the issue of new expenses with the Green New World, Knuth is concerned about the future of fire fighters in western North Dakota because of the way the system is set up and also because the energy companies have been paying much more than people know or think.
In 2019, Spiess conducted an interview with Karolin Jappe, McKenzie County Emergency Management, who gave details on several recent donations from energy companies for emergency service equipment and training.
“Crestwood’s donation was used for a mobile air compressor trailer which gives an instant upgrade to their community,” Jappe said. “This air compressor unit will be used by adjacent counties too. Crestwood also donated scholarships to local emergency responders for additional training.”
Jappe continued citing a number of other monetary and resource donations energy companies had performed in western North Dakota.
“ConocoPhillips’ donation will allow McKenzie County to upgrade their communication equipment,” Jappe said. “The ONEOK donation will open up new opportunities for training emergency responders as well.”
Jappe also was interviewed by Spiess in 2021 regarding the issue of volunteer fire fighters.
Here is a list of energy companies who have contributed to emergency service causes in McKenzie County. According to an email from Jappe:
DAPL – has given me two very large checks. ($20,000.00 each time.) The last check they gave to me, I asked that they just write the check directly to Grassy Butte Fire Department as this fire department has a Very Low tax base due to most of their district being Federal lands and they wanted to provide a higher level of service to their district in purchasing Extrication equipment and 16 of their firefighters took the 16 hours of training to be able to provide that service. The equipment alone was $40,000.00 so then Ovintiv kicked in another $15,000.00 and then the Fire Chief raised the rest with local companies.
Phillips 66 purchase a duo tote foam trailer for us. Since I have 10 volunteer fire departments, I just write the grants for my department and then the equipment can serve all of the departments.
ONEOK and Hess have been very generous, both giving monies to my CERT team that is coming to fruition.
Many, many many oil companies and folks and local businesses gave money and other stuff when I had a F2 Tornado back in 2018. I can’t tell you how many of those companies sent money to help people get their lives back. That was tough.
In 2019 when I had a flood in E Fairview and Cartwright – again – help came in. Some of the most important help came from companies that let their employees take 8-16 hours to do community service for many of these folks.
We have an Annual Dinner each year for ALL First responders and numerous companies are Always willing to help support that.
I know I might have missed someone – especially all those who help with my annual dinner – and unfortunately this more than likely isn’t a 100% complete a complete list, but my biggest supporters are,
XTO
Ovintiv
ONEOK
Conoco Phillips
Secure Energy
API
Targa
Hess
Crestwood
Grayson Mills
Belle Fourche/Bridger Pipeline
Circling back to the SuperTalk 1270 interview with Robert Knuth, the issue of the Bakken “maturing” is only going to get worse for fire protection in the state of North Dakota.
“There are fire departments that are struggling just to put fuel in their vehicles in their apparatus to keep the lights on in their station,” Knuth said. “There are fire departments that are doing very well based on the amount of residents they have and businesses in their communities. But the small rural communities that don't receive a whole lot of legislative funding rely heavily on donations, fundraising pancake breakfasts and spaghetti feeds, you name it. They are really struggling out there.”
This lack of funding and resources from the state has rippled into other areas of government as well.
On February 16, ESG University conducted an interview with North Dakota State Auditor Josh Gallion who cited a citizen-driven audit with a rural fire department. In the audit Gallion found that a rural fire department was using public money as seed money to purchase a raffle item as well as a few Happy Hours.
While on the surface this isn’t a significant amount of money or isn’t destroying the spirit of the law, it is an issue that creates more government waste depleting the state’s resources while further creating a riff or division amongst citizens and government workers.
“You know, one of the audits we've done was on a rural fire district here in North Dakota,” Gallion said. “In a five-year span, a very small rural fire district spent over $30,000 on just alcohol, which by the way is not in accordance with North Dakota law or the constitution. We can't buy those types of things. After we made that public and we informed the citizens, I've had several legislators and direct attacks at me, and it's related to this (fire department) audit.”
Furthermore, fire protection funding in western North Dakota has appeared to have “matured”, according to many who connect the oil industry with western North Dakota government funding.
On February 15, Energy Intelligence published an article titled “Bakken Comes to Terms with Maturity”.
North Dakota’s oil and natural gas regulator expects flat investment and production growth in the Bakken Shale in the coming years as operators increasingly view the field as mature.
Speaking to reporters on Monday, North Dakota Department of Mineral Resources (DMR) Director Lynn Helms said most of the 10 operators he had spoken to the previous week had roughly a decade of drilling inventory left in the play.
“It does mean that we have flat to maybe 1% or 2% growth for the next 10 years,” Helms said. “But at that point, drilling drops off.”
Helms’ remarks come as a handful of Bakken operators including Continental Resources and ConocoPhillips have entered or beefed up existing positions in the Permian Basin in an effort to grow production.
While the Bakken is no longer viewed as a growth engine, its drilling productivity and favorable economics make it a “cash cow” for producers, Helms said.
“The number one issue facing the fire service in North Dakota right now due to the fact that 96% are volunteerism is recruitment and retention of volunteers,” Knuth said. “We are seeing an increase in the number of individuals that no longer have the time to dedicate to providing this service. We have businesses out there that are struggling to keep up with everything going on in the real world.”
In the meantime, Governor Doug Burgum is busy promoting spending more tax dollars directing more benefits to the four full time agencies in North Dakota while the other 359 fire departments have spaghetti feeds until they slowly burn out and extinguish.
Below is the raw, unedited transcript from our artificial intelligence translator.
Steve Bakken
Also, we're gonna talk C. 02 coming up next hour, of course, what's going on with some carbon solutions and their proposed pipeline, We'll find out more about that. And uh Jason before we start, I would be a little remiss if I didn't say thank you to Gunter's auto repair. Plus somebody from over there dropped off the, I'm not gonna say best because my, my bar is pretty high, but they were some pretty darn good caramel rolls, they were phenomenal. Yes.
Jason Spiess
Oh, okay. Oh man, now you're talking real uh you're talking about a real comment there. If this is some of the best caramel I that is
Steve Bakken
a bar, I'm not gonna say best because I am very, I'm a snob. I am absolutely flat out a snob when it comes to. Yeah. In fact, the best karma roles of all time ever, and this might be a childhood thing, but we had a cabin up on lake of the woods when I was growing up and go up there with my grandparents all the time and we would stop in Roseau, this little hotel and cafe called the guesthouse in Roseau Minnesota, I think it's burned down not that long ago.
But there were some little 90 year old ladies in there that were up at 3 30 every morning making fresh caramel rolls and they were the biggest fluffiest because that's kind of the key, you gotta have the really fluffy bread and you can slide a little bit on the caramel cause caramel caramel, there's either the pudding caramel or the real caramel, but you can, you can slide a little bit, there's, there's some flexibility on the caramel side, but it's the bread and they had the
fluffiest and they would make those big, remember back in school when you see these giant baking sheets, they used to cook the square pizza on those giant cooking trays, that's what they bake these on and they were the fluffiest, best lightest karma, liest caramel rolls. You we would leave um home to get through there while they were still early enough to get them because they went fast.
So you had to get through Roseau Minnesota early enough to get the caramel rolls because they sold out quickly. But oh, childhood memory, but best caramel rolls I ever had. These were these were up there. I'm gonna say they they were, they were in the ballpark, but they got, they were phenomenal common rules.
Jason Spiess
You spent some time in Fargo as did I. Did you ever go to the shack on broadway? Yes. Yeah. So the shock on broadway had a few owners but the original owner, She was a baker and she had the best caramel rolls that I would say two dates that I've had because she was the same thing. She was in there every day at 3:00. Homemade dough, homemade caramel. I mean, homemade caramel doesn't matter. I argue with you sir, go to the shakeout broadway with the original owner and her caramel rolls.
People were coming from miles over. In fact I even think she did the caramel roll french toast one time as an experiment from you know out of demand for these things and you know when she sold the place she did sell the recipes but unless you wake up at three a.m. And and put in the love and the sweat and the tears which I think we're actually in them the stuff
Steve Bakken
Tastes better at 3:00 AM when you start baking it. It just for some reason it's better that way. Um ...
Jason Spiess
It
Steve Bakken
might be you know but I didn't say the caramel doesn't matter. I just said there's a little flexibility because there's a lot of different caramel recipes. Little nuances I've had from I've actually had the pudding recipe caramel that wasn't bad but all the way to the homemade caramel is the best of course but there's some nuance, there's some flexibility in the caramel and you're gonna get good caramel. There's
Jason Spiess
which I'm a I'm a bread pudding snob and made probably the best bread pudding too that I'm thinking about because
Steve Bakken
I'll give you that. She was. Yeah that was
Jason Spiess
anyway sorry so we're just kind of going
Steve Bakken
on now I'm now
Jason Spiess
we probably can't even serve that stuff anymore because it's too real of ingredients.
Steve Bakken
Yeah that might be it. What's the E. S. G. Score for some of those ingredients.
Jason Spiess
Crickets in your caramel rolls. You don't have enough crickets in your car. You
Steve Bakken
know I was just reading an article in this has been around for a long time. But the FDA allows in food stuff and like tomato paste. Have you ever read what's allowed in tomato paste? And there's so many bug parts and this is just part of the processing but it's you know, it's cooked and sealed and it it's fine, you're not gonna die from bug parts and your butt.
Now this is this is the crazy part of this is the E. S. G. World we live in now we're getting to where well wait a minute you're gonna mandate different crickets and things because that's food now. So it's not a contaminant. That's food and it's a viable protein and it should be part of what you're consuming.
Jason Spiess
I'll tell you steve, I wish um you know, anyone listening right now, if you go to E. S. G. You dot org, uh we've got a variety of stories up there and and and we take we take political leans but we also go all sides because it's like a university. All voices are accepted here no matter what, even the hacky sack Fools guys playing. Hacky sack. Yeah let's let's bring in their ideas to because that's what a university does. It's kind of a critical thinking type of a place.
So we try to do that. And about four months ago we did an article on the cricket, this cricket movement in um europe. That's happening. Well about two weeks ago, steve, I noticed that they did pass a law that allows an increase of how much cricket meal you can now put into these um different, oh, you know, whether it's chicken McNuggets or beyond beef or you know, where they squirt the paste out and make it look like a burger you can put
Steve Bakken
now
Jason Spiess
can have 10% more crickets in it. And if you, you know, if if you if you're buying your your meats from europe or wherever these laws are allowed, well, there you go, you're gonna have a little more cricket in your and we wanted to do a story on that, but um, you know, we just don't have the staff for the, so if you want to go on anyone out there, you want to subscribe.
Once we get to a certain amount of subscribers, we can actually hire a staff member and then we can have have some of these cricket stories up at E. S. G. You, because, you know, they're kind of fun, but also steve, they're really important because people don't understand the change that's happening here. There's a very, very big change happening in the next hour. We're gonna talk a little bit about Greta thunberg, new book, the modern day manifesto that is, I'm just calling it
right now, organically because we're doing a story on E. S. G. U. Dot org on it right now. And when we take a look at some of the changes that are happening at 9 30 we're gonna have a gentleman to come in um the fire. What's his title again? I'm sorry steve look
Steve Bakken
real quick. So it's robert knew the training director for North Dakota Firefighters Association. We're gonna talk about lithium ion batteries and some of the things that they're seeing as a fire fighting unit. And, and there's been a paradigm shift on how you have to fight a fire depending on what is coming out of that fire.
Jason Spiess
And, and so, you know, one of the things he's going to do is walk us through exactly what's going on here. Because one of the things that's happening that people are not talking about their their their arguing about politics. They're reacting to politics. In the meantime, firefighters are having to now get trained because of all the new rare earth minerals that we don't understand how they react with our environment.
Take a look at what's going on in Ohio right now, what is going on in Ohio right now is what could happen right here, because we've had it happen up in my not we had it happen with the anhydrous ammonia, um uh accident that happened up in Minot. That was a new thing. People died up there steve, there was a very controversial and very in famous communication snafu within our industry, which has An emergency broadcasting station.
So we had to up our training as well to be reactive to what is going on out here, what's going on in the firefighting World Steve 85% of these firefighters are volunteer. So not only do they have to add this new training to their whole, you know, their daily lives, but they gotta go away from their, their families and their, uh, their work because a lot of these guys are following our volunteer now, what we want is we want someone to walk
us through what's going on here, you know? So you and I just don't start speculating and pontificating because we can do that and that sounds fun, but this is serious stuff,
Steve Bakken
you know, we're up against a break, Jason just before we hit the break, I want to mention one of the things going back to the food stuff, of course, the big soybean exports going on in Fargo, uh, this week, soybeans a big crop here in North Dakota. Um, but going back to the food and when you start talking about milling, what I found was fascinating was the agenda seekers.
The left side of the agenda that have gotten into this realm of, let's change definitions, let's change words, let's change what an apple is not an apple anymore. Um, so what they're doing with the cricket meal is they're classifying it as a protein. So if you look at a bag of flour and that flower is now going to have another ingredient in there, it's not going to say crickets, it's gonna say uh whatever type of protein part of the problem is the cricket, when you mill up a cricket,
it's very similar to shellfish. So people, what's really happening is people that have shellfish allergies can react to a flower that's on the shelf, you're not eating anything near a shellfish. So you think, but wait a minute, it's kind of like not disclosed, okay, we're not gonna call them peanuts anymore. So people who have peanut allergies while you're on your own buddy. But but that's what it's what it's becoming.
Jason Spiess
It's almost like we've become the guinea pigs now. Huh? Yeah.
Steve Bakken
But but but the because of the chitin a skeleton of a cricket, it's very similar to a shellfish. So people with shellfish allergies, but they're not calling it crickets or a shellfish allergy on a package of flour. It's uh, an added protein is what
Jason Spiess
it is. What's happening steve is is politicians and lawyers are changing scientific terms. That's dangerous. But that's what's happening.
Steve Bakken
Like boy girl,
Jason Spiess
climate, the whole climate change thing happened by lawyers and politicians changing definitions of words. It was it was it was inch by inch by inch over a 2030 year process. And that's why we're at where we're at. And it's um and that's one of the reasons why we they're ignoring what you just said, there's an actual real shellfish
allergy that comes with crickets and they're ignoring it right now they are, they're just, they're trying to see how many people are gonna react. That's what they're doing.
Steve Bakken
This is talk of the town on super 12 70 more in Quebec on a wattage Wednesday on Super Talk 12 70. Talk of the town
Speaker 3
1270. Welcome back to talk of the town on Super Talk 1270. ...
Steve Bakken
You're tuned to talk of the town on super 0.12 70. I mean hosted back along with Jason speeds on this wattage Wednesday, good Wednesday is going to be continuing to die on during the day. I and over in the eastern part of the state. I talked to a couple of people who were over for different hockey and basketball stuck roads closed in the eastern part of north Dakota because of the system that went through another column. Hello? But fortunately from a snow fall perspective, we just got
the wind out of it. We didn't get all the snow, but so not a lot to blow around and drift around. But I had some pretty good drifts in my driveway this morning. Had to shovel off. We're talking with Jason speeds from the crude life, sunday mornings, 10 am right here on super dock 12 70 we were talking about food a little bit and you and I all right, You had a question or something you wanted to bring up, we were visiting during the break because magic happens during the breaks actually
Jason Spiess
from caramel rolls to crickets, man, what a what a way to kick off the show here on a wattage Wednesday. But now
Steve Bakken
actually just full disclosure if if I had a really good caramel roll and a cricket landed in it, I'd probably still eat it. Just pick it off the five second rule or, or five leg rule, whatever the case may be. Tell you what in bismarck though, I do want to give to shout outs my favorite caramel rolls in bismarck. Little cottage cafe phenomenal caramel rolls and then uh, fritz over Amanda. Great karma rolls as well.
Jason Spiess
Sounds delicious. I haven't had free. It's there. No, um, I'm not at that, no. Um, the shellfish thing, uh, you know, you mentioned the allergy part of, of the whole thing, which is, which is true. There are people that are allergic to shellfish and it's um, it's not uncommon. It's, it's pretty common. Uh, I would say percentage wise. I mean there's, it actually clicks on the percentage scale, so it's not under 1%.
Um, but also there's, there's um, mm. Biblical theology involved here, steve where, you know, leviticus, they don't, they tell you not to eat shellfish or anything that doesn't have, I think its gills and scales or fins and scales. So, you know, octopus and squid and shellfish you're not supposed to eat either. So there could be people that are eating shellfish that it's against their, their religion.
And I can tell you what I know a certain faith that would that would get very upset if if your hot dog wasn't kosher. If you're if you're uh you know um ketchup wasn't kosher, did you know that a lot of these food places they have to have a rabbi on staff to make sure food is kosher?
Steve Bakken
I did know that.
Jason Spiess
So I mean you have that whole thing in all honesty that could end up going in the E. S. G. Type of a movement to where if enough people get upset that cricket meal is going into their caramel rolls and they don't want it rather than to say we won't allow cricket meal anymore. I could see the legislative leaders say you know what the way that the the the jewish faith or the jew face. The depending on what you know how how you phrase it uh as a rabbi, maybe we should do that for some of the other
you know cricket based face that don't allow shellfish and that type of thing. I mean they do with allergies, they do with faith based things eventually. People are not gonna want crickets steve, that's what I'm telling you. Eventually people are gonna say I don't want crickets in my in my caramel roll and I want to feel safe to know that when someone gets okay do we need to go like
Steve Bakken
walter white. Okay so my my question here then because where I thought you were going with this is uh bringing up that E. S. G. Has been around for a long time in actually old testament biblical
Jason Spiess
boy. I I it's probably true on that as well actually. But that's I think that's more of the money changers when jesus tip the table with the money changers in the temple telling you not to stay in debt or get in debt and that sort of thing. But um no some of this other stuff though it's you know when you when you take a look at killer, okay let's just take a look at the drug trade steve how many people joke about you know is that uh marijuana have oregano in it or does that cocaine have baking
powder in it or you know and I think South Park even did a spoof that you're you know what are you cutting your KFC gravy with boston market gravy come on. You know. So are people gonna start putting cricket meal in their flower now because it's cheaper to get? I mean that's what I'm saying. What's gonna happen here is is is in the in the under black dark market black alley market whatever it's called these days.
I'm not sure what the P. S. G. P. C. Is on the dark web um That sort of thing. But that's what's gonna happen. You're gonna start seeing more of these things start to happen. So and I know people think I'm crazy talking about this. But Steve, you read the article. People can expect 10% more crickets in their food, right headline.
Steve Bakken
Maybe we'll get lucky and crickets will replace fentaNYL. That would be a blessing. That may be so I try to spin this into a positive fashion. What's the positive side of this
Jason Spiess
boy? That's a good question there. I'm not sure if speaking of fentaNYL and that's probably a transition to the emergency response. Uh you know, I mean what a spike we've had on fentaNYL and in the United States in the past, you know, six months. That type of thing. That's a real serious issue that needs to be rectified fast. And I'm not sure if there's a solution for that steve,
Steve Bakken
well I don't know if we'll solve it on this program but we're gonna try. Right Jason.
Jason Spiess
Yeah we can try. Why not? We'll just start right now. But you know, you know, in all honesty, when you take a look at the last week it was a fantastic week for E. S. G. Now I do not mean that or support that. That is an observation that I'm making as a as an editor, as a journalist, as a media person.
And I'll cite it like this. It started with the kevin Bacon ad that started the week before the Super Bowl started with that. And then the Super Bowl was the E. V. Coming out party. My goodness steve. you can't even get those cars for two
Steve Bakken
years. I tell you what, we're great place to pause and we're gonna talk about that at the top of the hour. But coming up next segment, we'll talk to robert training director, firefighters association. Yeah. You banning cars? We'll talk about that coming up as well. This is talk of the town on Super Talk 12 70.
Speaker 3
It's all about the pets steve dale's pet world, Saturday afternoon at four on Super Talk 1270. ... Welcome back to talk of the town on Super Talk 12 70. Talk of the town brought to you by big boy, just get in line. It moves fast. Dakota pharmacy and Dakota Natural Health Center. We're here to help you stay well, trademark realty and silver Ranch. ...
Steve Bakken
You're tuned to talk of the town on super dock. 12 70. I'm your host to block along with Jason speeds from the crude life gets screwed life sunday mornings 10 am right here on Super Talk 12 70. This is a wattage Wednesday. One of the things Jason speeds and I were talking about been talking about for a little bit now is what's been going on from a firefighter perspective.
Now we just had a business, I know personally in bismarck that had a lithium ion fire and it was well, it's a different scenario for firefighters and first responders to have to deal with than what they typically deal with in a home or business fire or even in an industrial fire, lithium ion battery fires are a little bit different and uh, there's been a little bit of buzz going on around the country because what we're seeing from the transition from traditional fuels to a battery
society uh, and there's some things that the firefighters you may not think about have to deal with from the first responders perspective, joining us on the program, robert Neuwirth, he is the training director of North Dakota Firefighters Association rob. Welcome to the show.
Robert Knuth
Good morning. Thank you for
Steve Bakken
having me, Glad you could come on it. I wanted to talk a little bit, Jason speeds with me as well from the crude life and wanted to talk a little bit about what you guys are seeing from a training perspective, there's been a little bit of a push around the country to try to find some new, funding, different equipment, different training for firefighters who were having to deal with lithium ion batteries.
And for most people, you're going to think, oh well it's a fire, but I try to try to kind of try to explain it this way. Not all fires are the same for one. And secondly, it's kind of like you don't throw water on a grease fire, you have a different firefighting methodology for that lithium ion batteries kind of the same way, ...
Robert Knuth
you're absolutely correct steve um, when we're dealing with lithium ion batteries. Uh, it's um, the mindset that we have to keep in mind is the heat that these items retain. Uh There are several instances um throughout the nation where uh firefighters have fought a electric vehicle fire and we'll just use that for an example and they extinguished the fire and the vehicle is taken to a scrap yard um waiting for insurance to deal with it and it's not handled correctly and they don't
realize the amount of heat that is retained. So what happens is if they do not segregate those vehicles, other vehicles next to it or near it due to the heat and the re ignition of that fire. Now you have multiple other vehicles on fire. All lithium ion batteries can be extinguished with water. However you need to ensure that they are de energized. You put the fire out and you have to maintain your water supply until that battery is cooled down. So it's N. F. P. A. The National Fire
Protection Association has come out with a standard and it takes on average anywhere from 7 to 10,000 gallons of water on an electric vehicle to get it cooled. Uh the fire out and the uh the battery in the fuel cell completely cool to where it doesn't pose a hazard anymore. So that's the the the knowledge requirement that we need to get out to the rural fire departments who are now seeing an increase in the number of hybrid and electric vehicles in our
Steve Bakken
state. You know, another thing too is I was talking to some friends down in florida and firefighters and um they were going through and yeah, we could tell which houses on the tail end of Hurricane Ian, we could tell which houses had electric vehicles in them because this garage burned down and this garage burned down because electric vehicles also don't deal with salt water. Well, um so so not all water is the same, just like not all fires the same.
Robert Knuth
Right? Yeah. And and there are there are several um agencies across the nation, and N. F. P. A. Is the one that we deal with uh most in North Dakota as far as a firefighter training uh that are developing new and innovative training methods for firefighters across across the nation dealing with this specific hazard.
Jason Spiess
I was gonna ask you about the genesis of that because, you know, hybrids came around in California back in the 90s and we started seeing a little bit more kind of trickle in, but then they kind of came came in pretty quick. And what, how is that going? The training side of things for the fire department? Is that something where you guys can or you I'm trying to not to say you guys anymore.
So it's something where the firefighters can uh be proactive on something like that, or is that something where you just have to be reactive because if the majority of the firefighters in the United States are volunteer, I don't think you guys probably you don't think the firefighters have a lot of proactive money, I'm not sure. But that would be my guess. Anyway,
Robert Knuth
you're absolutely correct. Um The last thing fire service needs to, needs to do is be reactive. Um We spend a lot of time in a lot of effort, uh researching new technology, vehicles are the number one um item that we deal with, as far as new technology coming out, the new extrication equipment, the new methods and procedures on dealing with electrical vehicles compared to a traditional gas powered vehicle when they're involved in an accident is a prime example.
There are new techniques now, with manufacturers are trying to make vehicles safer. They're trying to meet new E. P. A guidelines as far as fuel efficiency, they're using uh different types of metal, more exotic types of metal that uh our traditional tools can't handle. So we need to stay on top of new technology going out into to the consumers because the firefighters, if we don't, then
we're already behind the power curve when we get on scene, and now we're using traditional methods on dealing with incidents and we find out a lot of times they are not working.
Steve Bakken
We're talking with rob Training director, not to go to firefighters association rob, we're coming up against the break, but I can think as a firefighter and I've got an E. M. S Background. But I think as a firefighter when you show up at a scene, it's almost like a vehicle hauling hazardous material that's got a placard on it and, and first responders are trained to know what that placard means so that they know what they're dealing with in an accident situation.
Um, the technology is changing so quickly. It's almost, you know, you're rolling up on a car fire or an accident on the interstate and, and you don't know what you're dealing with. That's the, that's the scary part for first responders and firefighters is the lack of knowing what you're dealing with so that you can deal with that situation. Yet you're trained for the situation, but you don't know which situation you're approaching when you get there.
Robert Knuth
Exactly. Part of our training that we do provide is that first roll up on scene, the recognition phase. You know, we call it a size up each of our firefighters need to be able to do a size up to determine what they are actually dealing with. Sometimes we tell them just take the extra 5 to 10 seconds, walk around your scene.
Look at what you're dealing with and then develop your attack uh, method that's going to best suit the situation and make sure your firefighters are safe when you're dealing with, We're
Steve Bakken
talking with rob fire training director for North Dakota firefighters Association, we come back, we're gonna talk more about lithium ion batteries and what that means for a firefighter's perspective And like Jason said, you know, you're right 85% of firefighters, especially in states like North Dakota, you're looking at rural firefighters now, you're looking at resources, training equipment, that there's a possibility of being a big deficit to be able to save lives.
And that's, that's something we need to look at very carefully as we're transitioning. This is talk of the town. I'm super pac 12 70 on a wattage Wednesday. I'm steve back in your host along with Jason's piece from the crude life. And this is talk of the town on a wattage Wednesday on Super Talk 12 70. Talk of the town.
Speaker 3
Super talk 12 70. Welcome back to talk of the town on Super Talk 12 70
Steve Bakken
you're tuned to talk of the town on super pac. 12 70. I'm steve blocking your host along with Jason speaks from the crude life. You can catch a crude life sunday mornings right here on Super Talk 12 70 we're talking with rob. He is the training director North to go to firefighters association and rob. You pulled up some numbers.
I was talking to you during the break a little bit. Um, and Jason's about average, but the actual numbers for volunteerism with volunteer firefighters out there, there's a big schism between the national average and what we've got here in North Dakota. If you could repeat that for us.
Robert Knuth
Sure, nationally. The average number of uh firefighters uh is approximately 76% are volunteer. When you come to a rural states such as North Dakota, that number drops or excuse me increases dramatically. We are at 95-96% volunteer. There are only four full time career fire departments. In the states, there are a total of 363 right now, fire departments totally recognized by the state of North Dakota.
So I mean everyone can do the math. We do have some fire departments that have one or two individuals, maybe even upwards of 10 that are full time. However, they still heavily rely on fire volunteer firefighters to supplement their manpower.
Jason Spiess
You know, and that's when I first heard that over 10 years ago, it absolutely blew my mind because when I think of, you know, one of the purposes of government, when you think of the roads and the schools, police force, the fire department to me is is a part of that ground floor honestly. And so when I found that out, I was, I was really surprised.
And then when I started seeing who these volunteer firefighters were. Well, these were, you know, employees or small business owners. And a lot of times these are just natural born leaders in communities. So that's another aspect of this that rarely gets talked about. Uh, one of the questions I had for you was, you know, we talked a little bit about, you know, you guys are strapped the way it is for budgetary reasons.
I mean 96% of North Dakota fire departments are volunteer for crying out loud. So I think by saying you probably have weekly budgetary issues is probably a kind way to say it when I think of what's going on in the world of oil and gas with the crude life. We've done a number of stories about the donations and the amount of investment if you will that the oil and gas companies have put into emergency response into communities.
Caroline Joppy comes to mind out in Watford City where I apologize. I don't know if it was a way sis or Hess or one oak, but or might have been all three, but they dropped six figures to buy some communication equipment. This isn't even firefighting equipment. This is just a communication equipment, which is part of firefighting, but it's not the standard water or sand if you will, how is the, that going?
As far as the oil and gas industry, you know, it came out that the bacon may have matured and it may not be what we thought it was before. So what's going on out there in terms of either the oil and you know, Donations or are you guys staying up to speed on that because like I said, I don't think people understand when you have to spend $600,000 to buy new walkie talkies. Sorry, long answer.
Robert Knuth
Absolutely. Yeah. Excuse me. Absolutely. There are fire departments that are struggling just to put fuel in their vehicles in their apparatus to keep the lights on in their station. Um, all fire departments that complete the requirements identified by the state and complete a certificate of existence are eligible to receive uh, funding from legislation uh, from the insurance tax distribution fund.
It is a percentage of the uh insurance that homeowners and business owners pay. Uh, there's five lines in their policy that are specifically for uh, fire suppression, fire prevention depending on the amount of insurance raise within their response area. At the end of the year. The insurance department Will issue a check based off this formula and I want to say it's like .2% of that tax will be returned to the fire departments. Um, but we have so many smaller rural communities
that that amount may pay a month worth of fuel bill for them. So, um, it's, it's a struggle across the state. There are fire departments that are, are doing very well based on the amount of uh, residents they have and businesses in their communities. But the small rural uh, communities that don't receive a whole lot of legislative funding rely heavily on donations, fundraising pancake breakfast spaghetti feeds, you name it. Um, they are really struggling out
Steve Bakken
there when they have those, please attend them because you know, I'm thinking back, it wasn't that long ago. Uh, real fire departments and not just one, but many had to show up for a prairie fire which were substance we're susceptible to here in North Dakota. Remember when the community of groceries burned? Um and there was a real fire that had to put that out and I bring that up to mine because I was I deer hunt down around Bucyrus uh south of there and when I was going out deer hunting
this year, guess what? They were fighting ditch fires out there is the real fire department very active. Uh and it's an ongoing active, but then you bring up the funding side of things and um that little reimbursement that they get afterwards. I mean, you know, when you're trying to maintain fuel costs, maintain equipment, they're hard pressed.
I mean you were talking a little bit of a break, you and I were talking rob about just what you've seen in the real fire numbers and number of calls in the Minot area and that's really across the state. They're getting more stressed all the time.
Robert Knuth
Oh, absolutely. Uh two years ago, uh we uh completed a year with just over 100 and 76 calls for the year at Minot world. Uh this past year we were close to 340. Um Yes, is one of the larger communities in the state. However, we also run mutual aid. And what we're talking about mutual aid is when a small community uh I'll just use uh relax for example as a structure fire, there are
three other departments that will be responding with the relax because they don't have the funding, they don't have the equipment, they don't have the manpower rob rob.
Steve Bakken
We're up against the break here, but if possible, can I hold you over the top of the hour for one more segment cause I'd like to get into that and explain to people what role fire departments are dealing with here in North Dakota if you're available. Yeah, absolutely. We're talking with rob. He is the Training director, North Dakota Firefighters Association. This is talk of the town on Super talk 12 70 A. L. X. X A. M.
Speaker 3
Mandan bismarck a town square media station broadcasting from the view community
Steve Bakken
Credit union studio
Speaker 3
Reports for Bismarck. Mandan Super Talk 1270. Welcome back to talk of the town on Super Talk 12 70. Talk of the town brought to you by big boy, just get in line, It moves fast. Dakota Pharmacy and Dakota Natural Health Center. We're here to help you stay well, trademark realty and silver Ranch.
Steve Bakken
You're tuned to talk of the town on Super dock 12 70. I'm your host back in along with Jason speed from the crude life. You can catch the crude life sunday mornings 10 am right here on Super talk 12 70. We're talking with rob the training director North Dakota firefighters association and rob, thanks for holding over the break because we were getting into some, um, things that I wanted to talk about that I think are important, 96% of North Dakota is covered by real firefighters.
A lot of great volunteers out there, farmers, ranchers, small business owners, a lot of them get into it because they want to help their friends, they want to help their neighbors. Um, a lot of that's changed with the oil boom in western North Dakota especially and what they were seeing from our first responders perspective, I brought up the Cyrus fire, you're taking a look at because of the funding mechanism and trying to pay for these services. A lot of cooperation between
these rural fire departments because they just don't have the resources. I want to give you an opportunity to continue that discussion. Um, go ahead and pick up where you left off on that cooperation piece. That is essential when it comes to real firefighter. And you know, a lot of times bigger cities will pitch into if it's close enough, they'll send out units because it's about protecting the public and that's where firefighters are really that line of defense.
Robert Knuth
Absolutely. The, The number one issue facing the fire service in North Dakota right now due to the fact that 96% are volunteerism is recruitment and retention of volunteers. We are seeing an increase in the number of individuals that no longer have the time to dedicate to uh, providing this service. We have businesses out there that are struggling to keep up with everything going on in the real world.
Um, they can no longer afford to let employees go during the, during normal work hours. So what happens is a small rural community has an emergency, whether it's a fire or vehicle accident and the lack of responders able to respond to that, it's forcing the neighboring departments to join in. So we have what's called mutual aid where if we have a huge structure fire and our initial response is inadequate.
As far as manpower, we request a mutual aid from these other fire departments who are not funded to go outside their district and provide this service. So they're using their fuel, their equipment, um, to assist their neighbors in, in other communities to provide that service. And, and it's a struggle.
Steve Bakken
Great example, prairie fires elevator fires, the scope of those just requires a bigger response and the resources just aren't there for whether it's a funding mechanism or it's an equipment mechanism. You know, even if it's, uh, 20 car pileup on the interstate during a blizzard, you know, these are where all the rural fire departments come together and try to cover that.
Uh, and then you bring in some of the larger cities, if there's fortunate enough to have a city that has resources that they can send, that's fairly close. That's the mutual aid side of things, correct.
Jason Spiess
When you talk about a lot of the community members that are either having to work or they just can't get away from their jobs or maybe they've had to move away or whatever the case is. Um What is being done I guess to recruit um That seems like that would be a very difficult
Robert Knuth
job. Yeah. Well, North Dakota Firefighters Association has partnered with the National Volunteer Fire Council uh to provide recruitment and retention programs throughout the state. Um We advise uh fire departments how to uh conduct recruitment fairs, um open up their doors, um provide information um through N. D. F. A. And through our funding we get uh we provide training and resources to these smaller fire departments at no cost to them.
Um Just to assist them with getting um more personnel coming into their department to provide assistance. When you're talking about the small rural communities though, there's seeing an increase in the number of individuals that are leaving those smaller communities because they can't afford uh not to have a job, so they're leaving the area for jobs or
family or school or or many other reasons and they're seeing a decline in the number of those individuals and that's where the mutual aid departments are coming in to assist.
Steve Bakken
We're talking to robert canoe, the training director of North Dakota Firefighters association rob. Um You know, I know on the bigger cities of course, Minot, Grand Forks. Fargo bismarck Mandan. We've got fire departments and a lot of those individuals are not the volunteer type. They're trained up individual, they went to school for it.
Uh They have ongoing training. Um how does that training look, what does that look like for a real firefighter that has to deal with some of these same incidences but they don't have the time, it's not a career for them, it's a volunteer position but they still need that same training. What does that training look like for a real firefighter?
Robert Knuth
Well I I can I can speak from my not rural fire department where I'm also the assistant chief. Uh We have a requirement for all of our members to achieve state certification for firefighter one which uh is based off of N. F. P. A. Standards. Uh We teach our guys how to properly put gear on how to properly use equipment, how to properly drive apparatus, how to we go into uh tactics on how to fight fires and stuff.
It's approximately 100 and 60 hours worth of training to receive this certification. When you start going into a small rural department, they struggle just to get enough individuals to respond to fires. Now you want to add on 100 and 60 hours worth of training, then go through a testing process to receive certification. It's inundating in in unattainable for a lot of these small rural departments the individuals just do not have the time.
So we provide as much of the very basic uh firefighter safety training. You know, we make sure they know how to put their gear on, how to use S C B A s and then we, we spend a lot of time focusing on that identification, on knowing when they can or cannot actually making make a an attempt to handle a situation on their own, they need to know when to call for help.
So that's kind of where we are kind of trying to focus our initial training on. But uh it's and we go back to our previous conversations about upcoming technology, it's constantly changing. So you know the certification is great and I uh import all firefighters to try to achieve it, but it's only one step they have to maintain that training, they have to maintain their knowledge and consistently update their policies and how they actually handle each of these.
And we're seeing just a increase in number of individuals just turning in their their bunker gear saying I can no longer do this and um spend the time because I have to raise my family, I have to earn a living and I have to put food on the table. So again that's where we run into some of the funding issues. Um
Jason Spiess
is most of this funding issues, is it population, is it all the above, I guess what is it? I mean it seems to me like there's no easy solution to this. I mean, not even driving a dump truck of money, not even is going to help.
Robert Knuth
No, there really isn't one silver bullet to solve solve the problem. It's it's uh it's a combination of everything. Um we put you know, when the firefighters offered an opportunity to go to a four day training and let's say they live in um we'll just say Carrington and the trainings in bismarck now, they have to take time away from work. They need to take time away from their family. They need to have funding to get from Carrington down to bismarck. Uh spend a night probably for multi
day class and mileage and food and all that stuff. And it's it's it's intimidating to a lot of these uh newer individuals, they can't afford to do that. So um again, it's it's volunteerism across across the the state is seeing this, not just uh firefighters, it's E. M. T. S. As well. All the requirements to be in the M. T. And the licensing and the continuing education. It's volunteerism is seeing a huge decline in the past several years. Well,
Steve Bakken
rob up against a break. Thanks for your time this morning. Thanks for going over a little bit as well because it's a very important topic here in North Dakota. I don't know, there's some bills out in the Legislature trying to address some of the rural firefighter issues, some of the firefighting issues period, whether it's funding or equipment here in North Dakota very supportive of everything you guys.
If somebody's interested in being a real firefighter, if they want to help their neighbors and their friends and their family, uh, maybe they do have a little extra time or maybe they're in a position where they're gonna make a little extra time because they know it's important for the community. How do they get involved in the program? How do you go? Hey, I want to be a volunteer firefighter.
Robert Knuth
Well, the number one step is to contact their local fire department. If they're in a larger city and they reach out to their fire department and they are not accepting volunteers because they're either career or their rosters full, they would be able to assist them saying, hey, we have a neighboring department that is looking for help.
So that's the first step is contact their local fire department. Ask them what the requirements are to volunteer or um, actually become a firefighter. So that's what I would recommend.
Steve Bakken
Well, rob, Thank you very much, rob North Dakota firefighters Association training director. Thanks for joining us this morning.
Robert Knuth
You're welcome. Have a great day
Steve Bakken
steve barking along with Jason species, wattage, Wednesday. Don't forget Jason with the crude life sunday mornings 10 am. Right here on super talk 12 7 and we come back, we're gonna get back into the E. S. G. A little bit and talk a little C. 02 and Greta thunberg has a brand new book out. We'll talk about that climate bible, it's climate book, but It's a religion for some people this is talk of the town on Super Talk 1270 ...
Speaker 3
To talk of the town on Super Talk 1270. ...
Steve Bakken
You're tuned to talk of the town on Super 0.12 70. I'm your host along with Jason speaks from the crude life sunday mornings, 10 am right here on Super Talk 12 70 wow Jason that uh, enlightening conversation with robert training director North Dakota Firefighters Association a lot more goes into the fire fighting. What I think people realize and um, it's not just fun, it's an adventure. Absolutely. You
Jason Spiess
know, all we all you have to do is look at what's going on in Ohio
Steve Bakken
yeah, and that started out real firefighters having to deal with that.
Jason Spiess
So, you know, in fact, um, I caught part of Fox news last night because they had a story on this Ohio River which is a real serious story and people should be paying attention to it and not suppressing voices and and arresting journalists and doing all these different things that are trying to find out what is going on out there. But they had on one of the responders that justified why they did the fire, why they burned it the way they did because if they didn't do it have been much
Steve Bakken
worse. That's what they were worried about is just exploding on its own.
Jason Spiess
So, and and the point is is that we're not dealing with wood fires anymore steam or not. So the training that's involved the amount of money that's involved one really does have to wonder how someone would gauge in E. S. G. Score for a state that has 96% of its firefighters volunteer. That's a very good question actually. Well
Steve Bakken
it depends if it's the european model or if it's the United States model because article I was reading european E. S. G. You firm was hired by Governor Burgum to give North Dakota and E. S. G. Score. So is there a global metric to this? Is it the EU score because we're seeing the, you just banned cars 2035 I believe internal combustion engines, they want them
gone. We're seeing things with aviation as far as the dangers of flying because of lack of training with trying to apply to an E. S. G. Score. Uh a lot has gone on this last week.
Jason Spiess
It you know it it really was the coming out party for E. S. G. And E. V. Cars and and really E S. G. And E. V cars are part of that. This climate book by Greta thunberg is a part of that, you know, your LG phone, you know L. G. Right? They actually they declared support for the task force on climate related financial disclosures which means that's like a super E.
S. G. Force there steve. so not only do you have you know these types of things but when you really want to talk about the coming out party for E. S. G. And everything on the one hand you know you've got states fight, you know Iowa came out yesterday with a boycott ban. You know Senate bill 10 90 for uh is for firearms and farming and um fossil fuel companies so that um investment firms cannot boycott against them.
So all that's going on, what's happening at the european union where the governor Doug Burgum decided to get the state's E. S. G. Report from is that they're saying there's no escape from E. S. G. Disclosures and audits because you know what they did yesterday steve, they told 2400 retailers across the country.
The biggest membership in the world that the E. S. G. Officers are now budgeted for. So now the E. S. G. Audit officers are budgeted for, they're gonna be ready to go and make sure that everybody is E. S. G. Compliant and Greta's got the thumbs up okay for you and this is happening.
Steve Bakken
I want to argue with you a little bit here because I think we're gonna be okay in North Dakota because you know the governor's office and we've got some legislators trying to defund our auditor's office. So part of defunding the auditor's office would be E. S. G. Auditing would be going away as well right
Jason Spiess
thing that gets me is that they're trying to yeah they're trying to get away from that and at the same time they turn around and give $45 million to kevin O'leary who's not even an american citizen. So again more money going out of the country. More state money. Remember when we used to stay that our state money would go out of state not under Governor Burgum.
It goes out of the country, our money goes out of the country. Steel, what is going on when the actual Air Force has to say why is china building right next to us and nobody's telling us about it. Governor Burgum. Why why why why are you not against this? What what's going on on your watch? And if you want to get even bigger picture steve, Well the state continues to play checkers. What's going on globally steve. Do you know what happened yesterday?
Are you familiar with the world of maritime? You know what the word maritime means? It's okay. Maritime law, that's what our entire economy is based on. Okay. It's based on maritime law and at one time it used to be backed by gold at one time it was backed by turnips and tulips and stuff like that and then it was backed by gold for a long time. Right? But now it was backed by oil for about the last 40 years. It was backed by oil. And
Steve Bakken
the methodology of maritime and maritime law came because of trading. It was about trading is what it went back, yep. All commerce and you know I go we're talking
Jason Spiess
about this steve is we're talking about a global economy that has to go through maritime law in order to have a global economy work yesterday. They just developed the very first E. S. G. Handbook for maritime minerals. So that means at the very root of everything that we have in our lives which is a mineral because everything that is manufactured needs minerals.
You're gonna have to have an E. S. G. Certification through maritime law. Okay that means that's a global over the top Sylvester Stallone foo bar moment right there because at the end of the day that's where it's gonna go. That's that that's where it's gonna go. Is that what does the maritime law say? Because steve you know that a lot of people still think that our dollars backed by gold.
No that's not true honestly what most people believe that the dollar was backed by for a long time was who had the mightiest military to protect the oil reserves because the oil reserves are what powers the globe since Covid biden administration has been going hardcore to get us off oil hardcore and I have no idea why Senator Hovan allows it.
I have no idea why Senator Cramer allows it. I have no idea why Governor Burgum allows it kelly. Armstrong is doing everything he can. In fact kelly Armstrong. He's a volunteer firefighter firefighter. True. He might fart to volunteer firefighter to.
Steve Bakken
Yeah,
Jason Spiess
I mean, I'm not, you know what? I'd like to give credit where credit is due and kelly, Armstrong is doing everything he can. But unfortunately for people who work, who work as a U. S. House of Representatives, you just have low self esteem all the time because you're constantly under attack. Kelly's done a heck of a job. Honestly, I I don't give him enough credit
Steve Bakken
Jason. We're up against the break and I want to finish this up. So we're gonna run this segment a little bit long because I want to get into the Greta thunberg book, the climate Book or the climate bible is what it's going to be uh professed as with the climate religion. Now, I'm glad you brought up the turnips. I'm glad you brought up roots because this Goes directly back to farming, because she's basically calling for an end of modern life in her new book.
Now, modern life means. And I go back, you know, 20 years ago when the argument was about Gmo and Gmo is what allows us to feed the planet because we have to feed people people need to eat. Well, she's calling for people just basically to die as she's sounding her climate alarm and I want to read you a little expert out of the book. She begins by saying the solution to this crisis is not exactly rocket science. What we have to do is halt the emission of greenhouse gasses, What that means to
anyone who understands how the world works is halting of economic growth, a halting of transportation, a halting of moving about, a halting of manufacturing and making things and most crucially a halting of feeding the world's masses. ... She's calling for mass starvation and an extinction event because of E. S. G. ... Are you ready to take it
Jason Spiess
serious? That steve.
Steve Bakken
Yes, Yes I am. I well I've been on that page with you for a long time but I wonder how many people out there truly do take it seriously because when we talk about E. S. G. And you know are running little joke is okay, what's the S. G. Score for that? You can watch sesame street episode and what's the S. G. Score for that? And there is one, ... if you go to Big
Jason Spiess
Boy, you got an E. S. G. Score. If you go buy a flower, you got an E. S. G. Score, that's the world that we're now in and china already has the app ready to go and doug Burgum loves it.
Steve Bakken
You know, she cites in here for example saying just to stick with the agriculture theme a little bit uh for example the ammonia that forms the essential ingredient to fertilizers that have enabled crop yields to rise to levels necessary to feed the world's masses in recent decades, produced from petroleum. If we shut down drilling for oil and gas pipelines, refineries, chemical plants as thunberg wants to do and that means an end to adequate global food production.
That in turn means the beginning of mass global starvation. Uh you can't make this up. Now. My question is, who wrote this for her? Because I will guarantee you she did not write this. No,
Jason Spiess
I'm sure she had the ai software right most of it. But she did have 100 and five other essays in there, including Michael Mann, who Michael Mann is notorious, not not the cool Michael Mann with al pacino know Michael Mann, the so called research scientist who's all of his work got thrown out when a whole bunch of people including some canoe Canadian high schools found that his science was flawed.
It's called the hockey stick graph. If you go look it up, it's called the hockey stick graph. What he did was he left out the number two, left out the number four and said, oh look at this graph, it just spikes up. Well then a bunch of Canadian high schoolers said, let's try this with tulips and the same thing happened and then they said let's try this with trees and the same thing happened, let's try this with ants.
The same thing happened. So what Michael Mann did is he created a formula. So no matter what you put in there, you get a hockey stick graph that al gore can turn into a movie and spook everybody out so Greta thunberg can write a book and put Michael Mann in as one of the sources of 100 and five essays for the modern day manifesto. You ready steve? Are you serious yet? Are you
Steve Bakken
ready? Yeah, I've been on board. Let's go get a cricket burger. No, I'm gonna go to big boy and get a real burger. Thank thank you very much. I appreciate that though. Maybe flying style. That that might be my, my lunch today. Jason. ... No, no, it is not. Jason as always. Thanks for joining us in this wattage Wednesday, Jason speeds of course you can catch the crude life each and every sunday morning, 10 a.m. Right here on super talk 12 7 and when we come back.
Did You Know 96% of North Dakota's Firefighters are Volunteer?